Posted by Lou on March 31, 2004, 7:34 pm
> > > Temperature rise for water: 53 degrees F (114 - 61)
> >
> > Um, not quite. The temperature differential your heater is maintaining
is
> > 53 degrees. The temperature rise for the water is the difference
between
> > temperature of the cold water coming into the tank and the hot water
coming
> > out. The air temperature in the vicinity of the tank doesn't tell you
what
> > the inlet temperature is - it could be warmer or cooler
> My analysis was to measure the energy loss for an IDLE water heater.
Right. So you're not measuring the cost of the water temperature rise.
Posted by Lou on March 31, 2004, 7:42 pm
> nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> >
> >
> >>...Take a 1-foot cube, 1 x 1 x 1. The volume is 1 cubic
> >>foot, and the surface area is 6 square feet. An n x n
> >>x n cube of 2 cubic feet will have n = (approx) 1.26.
> >>The surface area is 6 x 1.25^2 = 9.52 sqare feet. The
> >>volume has doubled, but the surface area has gone up by
> >>LESS than twice.
> >
> >
> > A lovely explanation, but larger tanks lose more heat.
> Not relative to volume.
For the same temperature differential, a larger tank has more surface area
than a smaller tank, and will therefore lose more BTU's per hour than will
the smaller tank.
The larger the tank, the fewer BTU's lost per unit volume in a given period
of time, but the absolute amount of heat lost varies with the radiating
surface.
It is not the case, as originally stated, that larger tanks have a smaller
surface area. It is true that larger tanks have a smaller surface area per
unit volume. The orignal statement, as posted, was incomplete and therefore
incorrect.
Posted by Lou on March 31, 2004, 7:50 pm
> For instance my utility co. offers time of day rates. When I was
> participating
> the electric rate was about half the normal rate from 7pm to 7am and
> all day weekends and holidays, and about twice the normal rate the rest
> of the time.
That sounds somewhat askew - what you've just said is that the electric rate
was _never_ the normal rate. You seem to be telling us that if, for
example, the normal rate was ten cents per kilowatt-hour, participants in
this time of day pricing scheme could buy electricity for either five cents
or for twenty cents a kilowatt-hour, but never for ten cents.
Is that right?
Posted by Mark Sauder on April 1, 2004, 1:17 pm
Lou wrote:
>
> > For instance my utility co. offers time of day rates. When I was
> > participating
> > the electric rate was about half the normal rate from 7pm to 7am and
> > all day weekends and holidays, and about twice the normal rate the rest
> > of the time.
>
> That sounds somewhat askew - what you've just said is that the electric rate
> was _never_ the normal rate. You seem to be telling us that if, for
> example, the normal rate was ten cents per kilowatt-hour, participants in
> this time of day pricing scheme could buy electricity for either five cents
> or for twenty cents a kilowatt-hour, but never for ten cents.
>
> Is that right?
Yes, that is correct. I just checked my utility co. web site
<HTTP://www.xcelenergy.com> and here are their rates.
Normal residential service - 7.092 cents per kWh
Time of day rates peak - 13.633 cents per kWh
Time of day rates off peak - 3.163 cents per kWh
The time of day service is an optional service, if you do not sign up
for it you will be charged the normal residential rates. If you can
move enough of your electric usuage to the off peak time you can save
money.
This is what my electric co. offers, other companies may have different
plans.
Mark
Posted by Phil Sherrod on March 31, 2004, 7:52 pm
> Larger tanks have LESS increase in surface than the
> increase in volume.
It is true that the volume increases faster than the surface area. So what?
Once you have a tank large enough to supply your hot water needs, any increase
in volume beyond that point will require an increase in surface area and more
heat loss. For maximum efficiency, you should use the largest single tank that
will supply your hot water needs.
> >
> > Um, not quite. The temperature differential your heater is maintaining
is
> > 53 degrees. The temperature rise for the water is the difference