Posted by joe11pu on March 21, 2009, 12:19 pm
I am mostly pretty tolerant in those deceiving or misleading business
practice, such as advertising a merchandise as $9.99 when it actually
is meant to $10, but recently when HP starts not printing ink volume
(such as 39 ml) information on all the cartridge boxes (such as 74,
75, 74XL), I think it really goes to an extreme; it is a really bad
business behavior. Using Google’s motto, “don’t be evil”, this is =
a
perfect example of HP evil. Recent financial crisis gives a person or
a corporate an opportunity to build a good character - to be
conscientious.
Posted by albundy2 on March 21, 2009, 7:25 pm
On Mar 21, 11:19 am, joe1...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am mostly pretty tolerant in those deceiving or misleading business
> practice, such as advertising a merchandise as $9.99 when it actually
> is meant to $10, but recently when HP starts not printing ink volume
> (such as 39 ml) information on all the cartridge boxes (such as 74,
> 75, 74XL), I think it really goes to an extreme; it is a really bad
> business behavior. Using Google’s motto, “don’t be evil”, this is a
> perfect example of HP evil. Recent financial crisis gives a person or
> a corporate an opportunity to build a good character - to be
> conscientious.
The HP site provides page yields for the various carts used in
different configurations. I was impressed with the 74XL's 710 -750
standard pages. I'm a refiller myself and have never purchased a new
ink cartridge. The page count is the most important number today
rather than ink volume because printers can vary in efficiency. A big
supply of ink goes quickly in a printer that dumps all the ink on
needless cleaning cycles whereas a printer that does not clog as much
and doesn't clean as much can make the ink go further.
For example, the 74XL with 18ml (using the HP site), supposed to print
over 700 pages while the old 45 with 42 ml of ink only printed 500
pages. As you can see, the ink volume is not the key now.
Posted by Dave on March 21, 2009, 11:35 pm
>The HP site provides page yields for the various carts used in
>different configurations. I was impressed with the 74XL's 710 -750
>standard pages. I'm a refiller myself and have never purchased a new
>ink cartridge. The page count is the most important number today
>rather than ink volume because printers can vary in efficiency. A big
>supply of ink goes quickly in a printer that dumps all the ink on
>needless cleaning cycles whereas a printer that does not clog as much
>and doesn't clean as much can make the ink go further.
Careful. You can't believe the advertised page counts. The numbers are
severely fudged. Think about it for a second...what is a "page"??? Is it
double-spaced text with only a few paragraphs, or is it a dozen wallet-sized
photographs? Obviously, the photographs are going to use a shitload more
ink for each page that you print. That's why you need to consider fill
rate, also. Without knowing the fill rate, the page count means NOTHING.
Fill rate is (to over-simplify it a bit) how much of the page is covered
with ink. But even if you know that, you have to take the manufacturer's
word on it. And the manufacturer has no incentive at all (ahem) to fudge
the numbers.
I see this HP (not marking ink volume on cartridge) issue a bit differently.
Several years ago, I spotted a trend where all major printer manufacturers
started shipping some models of printers with beginner ink cartridges. The
beginner ink cartridges looked identical to the ones you buy as name-brand
replacements. The difference is, the cartridges that ship with the printer
contain only 30-50% as much ink as the replacement cartridges that you
purchase when the ink runs out. This applies to toner as well, and affects
both inkjets and lasers. At the time, I thought it was a pretty scummy
thing to do. I mean, the manufacturer saves about 3 or 4 cents (maybe,
probably not even that much) in NOT filling the cartridge all the way, but
the manufacturer makes a buttload of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on the replacement cartr
idge when the initial ink runs out much faster.
Now, keeping in mind that printer manufacturers (not just HP, BTW) are
already inclined to rip off consumers by not filling ink cartridges all the
way...
We, as consumers, should be really PISSED that now they (HP, anyway) aren't
even promising a certain fill level by marking the volume of ink on the
cartridge.
This is worse than the ever-shrinking packages of grocery items, like the
"half gallon" of ice cream that is 1.5 quarts now, and shrinking...
Because now HP can put a few drops of ink into a cartridge that is still the
same physical size, and the consumer has no way of knowing that he's been
ripped off.
I mean, at least you can see the ice cream containers shrinking... -Dave
Posted by albundy2 on March 22, 2009, 10:58 am
> >The HP site provides page yields for the various carts used in
> >different configurations. I was impressed with the 74XL's 710 -750
> >standard pages. I'm a refiller myself and have never purchased a new
> >ink cartridge. The page count is the most important number today
> >rather than ink volume because printers can vary in efficiency. A big
> >supply of ink goes quickly in a printer that dumps all the ink on
> >needless cleaning cycles whereas a printer that does not clog as much
> >and doesn't clean as much can make the ink go further.
> Careful. You can't believe the advertised page counts. The numbers are
> severely fudged. Think about it for a second...what is a "page"??? Is it
> double-spaced text with only a few paragraphs, or is it a dozen wallet-sized
> photographs? Obviously, the photographs are going to use a shitload more
> ink for each page that you print. That's why you need to consider fill
> rate, also. Without knowing the fill rate, the page count means NOTHING.
> Fill rate is (to over-simplify it a bit) how much of the page is covered
> with ink. But even if you know that, you have to take the manufacturer's
> word on it. And the manufacturer has no incentive at all (ahem) to fudge
> the numbers.
> I see this HP (not marking ink volume on cartridge) issue a bit differently.
> Several years ago, I spotted a trend where all major printer manufacturers
> started shipping some models of printers with beginner ink cartridges. The
> beginner ink cartridges looked identical to the ones you buy as name-brand
> replacements. The difference is, the cartridges that ship with the printer
> contain only 30-50% as much ink as the replacement cartridges that you
> purchase when the ink runs out. This applies to toner as well, and affects
> both inkjets and lasers. At the time, I thought it was a pretty scummy
> thing to do. I mean, the manufacturer saves about 3 or 4 cents (maybe,
> probably not even that much) in NOT filling the cartridge all the way, but
> the manufacturer makes a buttload of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on the replacement cartr
> idge when the initial ink runs out much faster.
> Now, keeping in mind that printer manufacturers (not just HP, BTW) are
> already inclined to rip off consumers by not filling ink cartridges all the
> way...
> We, as consumers, should be really PISSED that now they (HP, anyway) aren't
> even promising a certain fill level by marking the volume of ink on the
> cartridge.
> This is worse than the ever-shrinking packages of grocery items, like the
> "half gallon" of ice cream that is 1.5 quarts now, and shrinking...
> Because now HP can put a few drops of ink into a cartridge that is still the
> same physical size, and the consumer has no way of knowing that he's been
> ripped off.
> I mean, at least you can see the ice cream containers shrinking... -Dave
I'm not carrying water for HP, but they do provide a site with lots of
specific information. My example was relative between two different
carts. I have no doubt that a 74XL produces more copies than a 45 with
twice the volume of ink. HP does provide the ink volume. I got the
above information directly from HP. Anybody with a computer and a
brain can access this information too. I always refill carts that I
receive used. I get about 200 7"X*8 full color prints from one #78
refill, which is pretty amazing. I've been using up a supply of dye
ink that I bought at Dollar Tree for $1/oz. (Don't bother to check.
They stopped selling it.)
I totally agree that the OEM ink is vastly overpriced and they are
embarrassed to print those tiny volume numbers on the package. I'm
just trying to stay one step ahead by refilling. Right now I like ink
rather than toner, but that could change. I might even try a solid ink
system, but those alternatives have problems too.
Posted by Evelyn Leeper on March 22, 2009, 11:32 am
Dave wrote:
>> The HP site provides page yields for the various carts used in
>> different configurations. I was impressed with the 74XL's 710 -750
>> standard pages. I'm a refiller myself and have never purchased a new
>> ink cartridge. The page count is the most important number today
>> rather than ink volume because printers can vary in efficiency. A big
>> supply of ink goes quickly in a printer that dumps all the ink on
>> needless cleaning cycles whereas a printer that does not clog as much
>> and doesn't clean as much can make the ink go further.
>
> Careful. You can't believe the advertised page counts. The numbers are
> severely fudged. Think about it for a second...what is a "page"??? Is it
> double-spaced text with only a few paragraphs, or is it a dozen wallet-sized
> photographs? Obviously, the photographs are going to use a shitload more
> ink for each page that you print. That's why you need to consider fill
> rate, also. Without knowing the fill rate, the page count means NOTHING.
> Fill rate is (to over-simplify it a bit) how much of the page is covered
> with ink. But even if you know that, you have to take the manufacturer's
> word on it. And the manufacturer has no incentive at all (ahem) to fudge
> the numbers.
I noticed that the new printer that we got "free" with our Mac took ink
cartridges that was a little cheaper than the ones for our old printer,
but also produced a *lot* fewer pages.
We decided to keep using our old printer.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
One can pay back the loan of gold, but one
dies forever in debt to those who are kind.
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> practice, such as advertising a merchandise as $9.99 when it actually
> is meant to $10, but recently when HP starts not printing ink volume
> (such as 39 ml) information on all the cartridge boxes (such as 74,
> 75, 74XL), I think it really goes to an extreme; it is a really bad
> business behavior. Using Google’s motto, “don’t be evil”, this is a
> perfect example of HP evil. Recent financial crisis gives a person or
> a corporate an opportunity to build a good character - to be
> conscientious.