Re: Illegals Get Better Health Care Than American Citizens

 Blah@spam.sucks says...

Shush, you!

I happen to live in a country with a socialist medical system.  
And your criticism shows that you just don't understand how it
works.

NOT only are we blessed with long waits, crappy service, and
shitty doctors.  But we ALSO have the wonderful knowledge that
our medical "needs" are defined by whatever the system is willing
to pay for.  If they don't cover it, then we don't need it.  This
magically helps to reduce out underlying health needs and costs.

Except for the dole-bludgers and lazy-arses.  With the same
mentality that drives socialist medicine, those nice people
"need" to sit around on my tax dollar, and eat, smoke, drink, etc
all day.  And then they need medical care for that.  While
responsible, hardworking people with medical issues get kicked in
the teeth, because we don't need as much.  It is our
responsibility to buck up, and sustain ourselves, and
stay healthy enough to work.  So we can support the
aforementioned bludgers.

Go private, you say?  Suuurrrrrre, and deal with the much lower
availability and much higher prices, and lower competence due to
lower competition, compared to a free market.  Because most of
the specialists in the country are sucking the gubmint teat.

Gosh, those nasty Americans are so mean for daring to criticise
socialist medical systems.  Because they don't know the half of
it.

And the whiny liberal American cheerleaders demanding such a
system know even LESS.

But, of course, I have learned to never, ever dis the system
here.  It just makes the docs more arrogant and nasty, when you
tell then that you are on to their game.  Their incompetence and
arrogance really shine brightly in those moments.


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It easily pays for itself.  Most other countries spend about half of what
America pays per person and have better health statistics.



In Canada you usually have your choice of almost any doctor, while in the US,
if you have insurance at all, you are limited to the doctors on whatever shitty
little health plan was picked out for you.  As for waits I had to wait 2 months
in Texas for the same procedure that people in Ontario only wait 3 days for.



I've got news for you.  It works exactly the same in the USA, except
is WORSE in the US, because the shitty little health care plans Americans
are stuck with get away with excluding a whole bunch of stuff
that a national plan would _never_ get away with.  Our small health plans
get away with all excluding sorts of crap that a national plan would not.
Plus Americans are stuck paying big $$$$$ for the gap between what doctors
charge and what our insurance bureaucrats decide is "customary".  Of course,
the salaries paid to our large number of useless private bureacrats far exceeds
any "savings" that come from having these parasites around.



What the hell are you talking about??  Your tax dollars are going to
pay national debt $$$$ interest and fighting wars $$$$$$ on the other
side of the Earth.  You aren't paying anybody to 'sit around', except
for disabled and elderly people collecting socialy security insurance.



This makes no sense.  If you're a 'hardworking' person, you are _more_
likely to need health care and develop health problems because of stress,
lack of time to take care of yourself properly, etc.



It is American's 'responsibility' not to get cancer, etc?  That is pure
crap.

You are trying to twist an economic issue into some sort of moral issue
and you are ending up with complete nonsense.  American's tax dollars
aren't going to 'lazy-arses' -- most of their tax money is going to places
like China and Japan to pay DEBT INTEREST and Iraq to fight wars.  



There is overwhelming evidence that universal health care systems
are much more cost efficient than America's dysfunctional "private" system.
If you are lucky enough to be one of the Americans with real (group)
insurance you still pay TWICE what Canadians pay with fewer choices
of doctors.   And If you have private (nongroup) insurance, which is only
available to Americans who don't have a chronic condition and is almost
useless even if you do have it, than you pay about FOUR times what Canadians
pay.  And not having health insurance is one of the leading causes of
death in the USA.

 Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:

  How about at least some plans in America covering Viagra and not
contraception.  On basis that impotence is a disease and that pregnancy
is not.


  Americans mostly pay that.  The main exceptions are those in the more
politically powerful unions, such as local government employees of older
bigger cities.


  Keep in mind ratio of employee net pay (after taxes and health
insurance) to employer payout to payroll considering workplace health
insurance plans, taxes including employer's share of SS, etc.  When
comparing USA to other propsperous countries, project an adjustment in
taxation to make USA do defecit spending as much as most other propserous
nations do.

<SNIP>


  America has those also!  American welfare recipients and
Americans getting disability largely get government-paid medical
coverage!  So do plenty of children in American working families with
much-below-median income!


  How about Canada's government spending (all levels) only about as much %
of GDP on healthcare as USA government (all levels) does only for
Medicare, Medicaid, sCHIPS, the like, and employer contributions to health
insurance premiums of government workers in such areas?

  USA's Canada-like figure for % of GDP spent by government for health
coverage does not even include employer contributions to health insurance
premiums of state/county/local/quasigovernmental employees, such as most
police officers, public school teachers, road repair/construction workers,
tax subsidy for public transit employees, and government contract workers!
  Also not covered by Canada-like %-of-GDP-spent-by-gubmint on healthcare
in USA are USA's private sector workers and self-employed and the 15% or
so of USA citizens with no health insurance coverage at all by anyone, not
even themselves!

 - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 Don Klipstein wrote:

Actually impotence may be a blessing. It's Nature's way of telling
you not to breed.

How do you justify forcing other policy holders to pay for
a drug?  How about just paying for it yourself?

<snipped>

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 On Mar 27, 11:03 pm, Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2...@THE-
DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:

 Wait a second. Did not USA have a thing with people going across the
Canadian border to get prescription drugs? You might want to look into
the fact that medical care is available privately in Canada. You can
find many articles on the web regarding Americans who cross the border
to get cosmetic surgery at less than half the price in the USA. The
publicity with regards to more needed procedures is not as well
publisized, but it does exist.

 Sure, the Canadian and European models of health care are not
perfect, but it sure beats being without health care in the USA.

 Please allow me to relate an experience I had as a nurse. I used to
do home hospice work. I was sent to a home to give four hours help to
a cancer patient. When I got there I found my patient to have had
three limps and a lung removed. His wounds were oozing through dirty
bandages and he was laying helpless in a soiled bed. His wife was
crying that she was overwhelmed and had been giving care to her
husband for months and was unable to care for herself. She was so glad
that I would be coming in twice a week for four hours. I started right
in cleaning up the patient. I wasn't there a half hour before I got a
call from the agency that the patient no longer had insurance and I
needed to leave immediately. When I protested I was informed that the
I would not be paid for any further time and that the agencies workers
comp would not be able to cover me and I faced dismissal if I stayed.
Besides, they had another patient for me. I left the home and the wife
crying and the patient just shaking his head. The drive to my next
patient left me wondering about the system. This guy worked hard all
his life and was being treated so unfairly because he had the wrong
type of insurance.

 I went to my next patient's home. He answered the door. Nearly the
first question he asked was if I knew how to roll a joint. He was a
dying AIDS patient and all he needed from me was to roll joints for
him, twelve hours a day, six days a week. I took care of him for
several months before he quickly fell ill and died. Now that is what I
call good insurance.