Posted by int19h on April 23, 2006, 6:12 am
> Many/most petrol stations in the US are already set up to take
> credit and debit cards. So people could be issued with dedicated
> prepaid cards.
> Or there could be smart cards that keep a running balance. you
> would hand it over when you give the attendant your money. Then,
> your purchase would result in that many litres or gallons
> deducted from your ration card.
Thanks, I see your point; this places the burden of clearance squarely at
the point-of-sale, and is thus decentralised, and therefore perhaps
practical. But personally I'm not too confident about the security of the
method you've suggested.
With any clearance system, even a highly centralised model, there is the
major possibility of tampering; eg: ATMs can be tampered with in such a way
that PIN numbers can be harvested and cards duplicated. However, users of
the card still have to interact with a centralised system; you can pretend
to be someone else, but you can't, for example, add three zeros to your
current account balance by modifying your card. In the context of fuel
rationing, obviously it would suck for the person whose card was duplicated,
but in the end the amount of fuel consumed would be the same, so the fuel
rationing (in a simplistic sense) would be successfully enforced. It's a
zero sum game.
It's worth keeping in mind that with the ATM card model it's NOT in the
cardholder's interest to tamper with their card since there is nothing to be
gained. The relationship is protective vs. predatory: cardholders wanting to
protect their card vs. thieves wanting to "steal" it.
However if we're talking about a system where the balance is saved on card
then the incentive for tampering is much greater (everyone's a predator!),
and could totally foil rationing enforcement. In fact the end result of this
could be quite devastating; if on the assumption of successful consumer
rationing (i.e. artificially limited demand), reserves and imports are also
appropriately rationed (i.e. artificially limited supply), then the failure
of consumer rationing (i.e. actual demand) would result in local shortages,
which would have dire economic consequences.
Then again, maybe I need to have more faith in cryptography :)
Posted by Antipodean Bucket Farmer on April 23, 2006, 7:12 am
In article <444b5184$0$13206$61c65585@un-2park-reader-
01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au>, ekee@qkkqq says...
> >
> > Britain is apparently still considering a "carbon" rationing
> > scheme, to regulate each person's consumption of air-polluting
> > energy substances - petrol, coal, etc.
> No they arent.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uk+carbon+rationing&btnG=Goo
gle+Search
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Posted by James on April 23, 2006, 3:01 pm
> In article <444b5184$0$13206$61c65585@un-2park-reader-
> 01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au>, ekee@qkkqq says...
>>>
>>> Britain is apparently still considering a "carbon" rationing
>>> scheme, to regulate each person's consumption of air-polluting
>>> energy substances - petrol, coal, etc.
>> No they arent.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uk+carbon+rationing&btnG=Goo
> gle+Search
Doesnt say anything like what you claimed.
Posted by Bob Ward on April 23, 2006, 8:29 pm
>> In article <444b5184$0$13206$61c65585@un-2park-reader-
>> 01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au>, ekee@qkkqq says...
>>>>
>>>> Britain is apparently still considering a "carbon" rationing
>>>> scheme, to regulate each person's consumption of air-polluting
>>>> energy substances - petrol, coal, etc.
>>
>>
>>> No they arent.
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uk+carbon+rationing&btnG=Goo
>> gle+Search
>Doesnt say anything like what you claimed.
Climate Outreach and Information NetworkIs personal carbon RATIONING
the only realistic solution to CLIMATE CHANGE? ... In the UK, half of
all emissions stem directly from energy use within the ...
coinet.org.uk/solutions/carbon-rationing - 22k - Cached - Similar
pages - Remove result
Telegraph | NewsDaily news from the UK, business news, countryside
news, UK technology news, ... with a "personal carbon allowance" - a
form of energy rationing - within a ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../news/2005/07/
02/nrg02.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/07/02/ixportaltop.html - 29k - Cached
- Similar pages - Remove result
Carbon Trust : Carbon RationingInvestment Trends in UK Clean
Technology 2000 - 2004 (May 2005) A study commissioned by the Carbon
Trust and carried out by Library House. ...
www.thecarbontrust.co.uk/carbontrust/ climate_change/iocc4_3_1.html -
15k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result
[PDF] A brief introduction to personal carbon rationing Summary Key
featuresFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Personal carbon rationing would be a UK-wide allowance system covering
the carbon ... Personal carbon rationing as a UK solution emerges from
the Global ...
www.ukerc.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_ docman&task=doc_download&gid0
- Similar pages - Remove result
UKERC - 29.06.05: UK Researchers Host Major Carbon Rationing EventThe
UK Energy Research Centre is a multi-million pound investment by the
Research Councils, and part of the Towards a Sustainable Energy
Economy Programme ...
www.ukerc.ac.uk/content/view/82/67 - 12k - Cached - Similar pages -
Remove result
Independent Online Edition > EnvironmentIndependent.co.uk Online
Edition: Home. Home · News · UK · Crime · Health Medical ...
"Domestically, we will need to introduce carbon rationing," he said.
...
news.independent.co.uk/environment/article354055.ece - Similar pages -
Remove result
UMIST - Archived news - Carbon rationing...to save the planetThe
process of migration to www.manchester.ac.uk is in progress. ...
Carbon rationing...to save the planet. Scientists devise 'equal
rights' system to ...
www.umist.ac.uk/news/articles/archive.htm?sid18 - 20k - Cached -
Similar pages - Remove result
Carbon rationing is “gift horse” says Mayer Hillman - Living
StreetsCarbon rationing would lead to shorter journeys and more
walking and cycling, ... of the UK carbon reduction target, and a key
problem area is transport”. ...
www.livingstreets.org.uk/page.php?pageid'9 - 12k - Cached - Similar
pages - Remove result
Belfast TelegraphCall for carbon rationing. By Dan McGinn
newsdesk@belfasttelegraph.co.uk. 22 October 2005. A GREEN MEP
yesterday called for people to be given a special ...
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?storyf6077 - Similar pages
- Remove result
carbon rationing | Campaign against Climate ChangeThis is a guide to
joining the carbon rationing scheme. In 2003, the average UK citizen
caused 5.4 tonnes of CO2 to enter the atmosphere (ref 1). ...
portal.campaigncc.org/?q=taxonomy_menu/7/128/109 - 28k - Apr 22, 2006
- Cached - Similar pages - Remove result
Posted by James on April 23, 2006, 10:00 pm
>>> In article <444b5184$0$13206$61c65585@un-2park-reader-
>>> 01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au>, ekee@qkkqq says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Britain is apparently still considering a "carbon" rationing
>>>>> scheme, to regulate each person's consumption of air-polluting
>>>>> energy substances - petrol, coal, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> No they arent.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uk+carbon+rationing&btnG=Goo
>>> gle+Search
>>
>> Doesnt say anything like what you claimed.
>>
> Climate Outreach and Information NetworkIs personal carbon RATIONING
> the only realistic solution to CLIMATE CHANGE? ... In the UK, half of
> all emissions stem directly from energy use within the ...
> coinet.org.uk/solutions/carbon-rationing - 22k - Cached - Similar
> pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> Telegraph | NewsDaily news from the UK, business news, countryside
> news, UK technology news, ... with a "personal carbon allowance" - a
> form of energy rationing - within a ...
> www.telegraph.co.uk/.../news/2005/07/
> 02/nrg02.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/07/02/ixportaltop.html - 29k - Cached
> - Similar pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> Carbon Trust : Carbon RationingInvestment Trends in UK Clean
> Technology 2000 - 2004 (May 2005) A study commissioned by the Carbon
> Trust and carried out by Library House. ...
> www.thecarbontrust.co.uk/carbontrust/ climate_change/iocc4_3_1.html -
> 15k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> [PDF] A brief introduction to personal carbon rationing Summary Key
> featuresFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
> Personal carbon rationing would be a UK-wide allowance system covering
> the carbon ... Personal carbon rationing as a UK solution emerges from
> the Global ...
> www.ukerc.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_ docman&task=doc_download&gid0
> - Similar pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> UKERC - 29.06.05: UK Researchers Host Major Carbon Rationing EventThe
> UK Energy Research Centre is a multi-million pound investment by the
> Research Councils, and part of the Towards a Sustainable Energy
> Economy Programme ...
> www.ukerc.ac.uk/content/view/82/67 - 12k - Cached - Similar pages -
> Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> Independent Online Edition > EnvironmentIndependent.co.uk Online
> Edition: Home. Home · News · UK · Crime · Health Medical ...
> "Domestically, we will need to introduce carbon rationing," he said.
> ...
> news.independent.co.uk/environment/article354055.ece - Similar pages -
> Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> UMIST - Archived news - Carbon rationing...to save the planetThe
> process of migration to www.manchester.ac.uk is in progress. ...
> Carbon rationing...to save the planet. Scientists devise 'equal
> rights' system to ...
> www.umist.ac.uk/news/articles/archive.htm?sid18 - 20k - Cached -
> Similar pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> Carbon rationing is "gift horse" says Mayer Hillman - Living
> StreetsCarbon rationing would lead to shorter journeys and more
> walking and cycling, ... of the UK carbon reduction target, and a key
> problem area is transport". ...
> www.livingstreets.org.uk/page.php?pageid'9 - 12k - Cached - Similar
> pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> Belfast TelegraphCall for carbon rationing. By Dan McGinn
> newsdesk@belfasttelegraph.co.uk. 22 October 2005. A GREEN MEP
> yesterday called for people to be given a special ...
> www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?storyf6077 - Similar pages
> - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> carbon rationing | Campaign against Climate ChangeThis is a guide to
> joining the carbon rationing scheme. In 2003, the average UK citizen
> caused 5.4 tonnes of CO2 to enter the atmosphere (ref 1). ...
> portal.campaigncc.org/?q=taxonomy_menu/7/128/109 - 28k - Apr 22, 2006
> - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result
Doesnt say anything like what he claimed.
> credit and debit cards. So people could be issued with dedicated
> prepaid cards.
> Or there could be smart cards that keep a running balance. you
> would hand it over when you give the attendant your money. Then,
> your purchase would result in that many litres or gallons
> deducted from your ration card.