Posted by Joe on May 18, 2008, 7:33 am
After years of fighting with the idea... My wife's 20 mile a day driving
and habit of having 3-5 kids in the car at a time have pushed us towards
owning a SUV of sorts...
Considering the Toyota Highlander or Mitsubishi Outlander (both 2007 or
2008)
Anyone own one? Thoughts?
Anyone have tips on the best time to visit a dealership, etc?
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm
Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
Posted by Paul M. Eldridge on May 18, 2008, 10:09 am
On Sun, 18 May 2008 11:33:54 GMT, "Joe"
>After years of fighting with the idea... My wife's 20 mile a day driving
>and habit of having 3-5 kids in the car at a time have pushed us towards
>owning a SUV of sorts...
>Considering the Toyota Highlander or Mitsubishi Outlander (both 2007 or
>2008)
>Anyone own one? Thoughts?
>Anyone have tips on the best time to visit a dealership, etc?
>Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
>Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
>http://yunx.com/valk.htm
>Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
>http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
>http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
Hi Joe,
If you're determined to buy new and can hold off making your purchase
a little longer, you might be able to negotiate a better deal; these
things are gathering dust on the lot and dealers are becoming
increasingly more desperarate to move 'em, and that includes Toyota.
However, you'd be much further ahead looking at a one or two year old
used model; in today's market, first-year depreciation on a truck or
SUV can be as much as 30 or 40 per cent, so a $30,000.00 new vehicle
could conceivable be worth less than $20,000.00 in as little as twelve
months. There are a lot of SUV owners who are being hard squeezed by
higher gas prices and who are highly modivated to sell, so there are
plenty of deals to be had.
On that note, according to the AAA, the national average of regular
unleaded is now $3.80 a gallon and if either of these vehicle requires
mid-grade you can tack on another 30-cents to that. I don't expect
gas prices to head back down anytime soon given the strong global
demand for oil and falling world production; in fact, I wouldn't be
too surprised to see you hit the $5.00 mark in the not too distant
future (we're already passed that milestone in many parts of Canada).
Just prepare yourself when it comes time to fill-up at the pumps.
Lastly, there appears to be a growing stigma attached to these
vehicles and I think a lot of folks are blaming truck and SUV owners
for the rapid rise in gas prices (SUV = "gas guzzler" = higher demand
= higher prices). Given the souring mood with respect to higher gas
prices and free trade, I might recommend a mini-van instead;
preferably, an American model such as the Dodge Caravan or Chrysler
Town & Country.
Cheers,
Paul
Posted by Joe on May 18, 2008, 1:34 pm
> Hi Joe,
Hello Paul,
> If you're determined to buy new and can hold off making your purchase
> a little longer, you might be able to negotiate a better deal; these
> things are gathering dust on the lot and dealers are becoming
> increasingly more desperarate to move 'em, and that includes Toyota.
The sales here in NJ are actually *up* compared to two years ago. Go
figure... I had two dealers whip out their sales numbers over the past two
to four years (depending on dealer (Mazda / Toyota) showing the models they
sold, etc. Can you believe the one dealer sells 100+ and sometimes 250+
SUVs a month!!! Incredible... Unbelievable...
> However, you'd be much further ahead looking at a one or two year old
> used model; in today's market, first-year depreciation on a truck or
> SUV can be as much as 30 or 40 per cent, so a $30,000.00 new vehicle
> could conceivable be worth less than $20,000.00 in as little as twelve
> months. There are a lot of SUV owners who are being hard squeezed by
> higher gas prices and who are highly modivated to sell, so there are
> plenty of deals to be had.
I'm looking all over Craigslist, etc and can't find too many 2007 or 2008
models in the Highlander or Outlander... They exist, but if I'm going to
make the leap and pay that $5.00+ a gallon to fill it, I'm going to get
exactly what I want at a good price. Thank God we don't do lots of miles on
the vehicle this is replacing. Maybe 20 or so a week.
> Lastly, there appears to be a growing stigma attached to these
> vehicles and I think a lot of folks are blaming truck and SUV owners
> for the rapid rise in gas prices (SUV = "gas guzzler" = higher demand
> = higher prices). Given the souring mood with respect to higher gas
> prices and free trade, I might recommend a mini-van instead;
> preferably, an American model such as the Dodge Caravan or Chrysler
> Town & Country.
I wish we could go that direction... But the wife is set on a non-minivan
so you know how that goes...
--
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm
Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
Posted by Paul M. Eldridge on May 19, 2008, 12:09 am
On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:34:42 GMT, "Joe"
>> Hi Joe,
>Hello Paul,
>> If you're determined to buy new and can hold off making your purchase
>> a little longer, you might be able to negotiate a better deal; these
>> things are gathering dust on the lot and dealers are becoming
>> increasingly more desperarate to move 'em, and that includes Toyota.
>The sales here in NJ are actually *up* compared to two years ago. Go
>figure... I had two dealers whip out their sales numbers over the past two
>to four years (depending on dealer (Mazda / Toyota) showing the models they
>sold, etc. Can you believe the one dealer sells 100+ and sometimes 250+
>SUVs a month!!! Incredible... Unbelievable...
Hi Joe,
Wow, that really is amazing. I wonder how long that trend can be
sustained, as gasoline prices continue their upward march. With
various incentives and rebates now available, there may be a number of
buyers eager to snatch up the bargains, but sooner or later their
numbers will presumably dwindle. Again, if you can hold off making
that purchase a little bit longer, the odds should be in your favour.
>> However, you'd be much further ahead looking at a one or two year old
>> used model; in today's market, first-year depreciation on a truck or
>> SUV can be as much as 30 or 40 per cent, so a $30,000.00 new vehicle
>> could conceivable be worth less than $20,000.00 in as little as twelve
>> months. There are a lot of SUV owners who are being hard squeezed by
>> higher gas prices and who are highly modivated to sell, so there are
>> plenty of deals to be had.
>I'm looking all over Craigslist, etc and can't find too many 2007 or 2008
>models in the Highlander or Outlander... They exist, but if I'm going to
>make the leap and pay that $5.00+ a gallon to fill it, I'm going to get
>exactly what I want at a good price. Thank God we don't do lots of miles on
>the vehicle this is replacing. Maybe 20 or so a week.
No question, at just 20 miles a week, that helps the situation
considerably. But unless you plan to keep this new vehicle for some
time, the subsequent loss in its residual value could inflict some
pain. As you can appreciate, depreciation is typically the single
largest expense in ownership and there's really no way you can avoid
the downdraft.
>> Lastly, there appears to be a growing stigma attached to these
>> vehicles and I think a lot of folks are blaming truck and SUV owners
>> for the rapid rise in gas prices (SUV = "gas guzzler" = higher demand
>> = higher prices). Given the souring mood with respect to higher gas
>> prices and free trade, I might recommend a mini-van instead;
>> preferably, an American model such as the Dodge Caravan or Chrysler
>> Town & Country.
>I wish we could go that direction... But the wife is set on a non-minivan
>so you know how that goes...
I hear ya. Mini-vans aren't sexy, but they do offer the space and
people carrying capability of a SUV, at a lower price point and,
generally speaking, with much better fuel economy and in some cases
safety.
Good luck!
Paul
Posted by Don Klipstein on May 19, 2008, 1:14 am
part:
>No question, at just 20 miles a week, that helps the situation
>considerably. But unless you plan to keep this new vehicle for some
>time, the subsequent loss in its residual value could inflict some
>pain. As you can appreciate, depreciation is typically the single
>largest expense in ownership and there's really no way you can avoid
>the downdraft.
My model for motor vehicle ownership: Drive it less, since I do well
with bicycles. Maintain it well, at least in the areas of working systems
and parts. Blush well and pretty if I have friends or relatives seeing
the paint job crapping out at 12-15 years (which I see being a common
occurrence on roughly-1990 GM cars).
If the darn thing works for 5 years after it was worth $2,000 -$2,500
and does so with with less than 1.5-2 grand in repairs in the 5 years after
depreciating to 2-2.5 kilobucks, then I think this is a bargain.
============================
One thing to keep in mind: A likely major repair item on older cars is
the air conditioning system. Failure of a critical part can accelerate
aging of a few others of this system.
If your "personal business model" is to tolerate a "beater" car, please
figure into this "personal business model" tolerating a car that lacks
functioning air conditioning.
Please keep in mind that a working air conditioning system is a major
part of defogging the windshield during those damp or rainy times when
humidity output of one human body can fog up the windshield 4-10 minutes
or whatever down the road.
My "personal business model" is to have my "primary car" being a
Bianchi "Pista". Since it has no motor until it has a rider, I don't have
to pay $3.80 or whatever per gallon for gasoline. It has no automatic
transmission, no gearbox, no water pump, no air conditioning system, and
no glass parts! Its brakes are comprised entirely of user-serviceable
parts. The entire vehicle weighs approx. 23 pounds (approx. 10.5 kg)
including the basket that I added on. OK, 24 pounds (11 kg) including the
inner tubes that I use as giant rubber bands to get most of a week's worth
of groceries to stay in the basket!
I have done all too much cycling when it is raining at 2 degrees C, and
for that matter worked a job delivering sandwiches by bicycle when all day
and all night it was pouring rain with temperature about -3 C. I made a
bike my car, and I was able to crank out the body heat to keep on trucking
even when my coat made crunching sounds in response to my movements due to
the ice coating! This was about a week into January 1994.
The "day after", when there was about 30 mm (about 1.2 inches) of
smooth wet ice upon most surfaces to drive, cycle or walk upon, and USPO
refused to deliver mail for maybe this only day of its history in SE PA, I
delivered sandwiches (and everything else available from a sandwich shop
with delivery service) by bicycle.
I seem to think that Americans need to remember history, including how
America has a major way of dividing being between "Puritans" and "Freedom-
loving Outlaws"! Keep in mind the "success" of "Prohibition" and the 55
MPH national speed limit!
But also I see that Americans need to remember history in terms of
needing to be "tough" against whatever tries to befell them - such as
need to do their getting around undeterred by big inflation of fuel cost.
I fear that my nation has all too many "modern softies"!
This is all from me at this moment; "Weep-wreep-beep-That's-All-Folks"
until the next day!
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
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>and habit of having 3-5 kids in the car at a time have pushed us towards
>owning a SUV of sorts...
>Considering the Toyota Highlander or Mitsubishi Outlander (both 2007 or
>2008)
>Anyone own one? Thoughts?
>Anyone have tips on the best time to visit a dealership, etc?
>Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
>Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
>http://yunx.com/valk.htm
>Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
>http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
>http://tinyurl.com/5apkg